Marvin Shilmer

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Posts by Marvin Shilmer

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  7

  Ashley Madison Cheat Site Hacked Users Names Published and Searchable

  by ctrwtf in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so i was just wondering how many of our former brothers and sisters are right now in a panic?.

  leave it to christnews.org to do the christian thing and publish a list of names.

  any computer geeks out there willing to search for any bethelites or elders dumb enough to use a real email address?.

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  Marvin Shilmer

  But how would we know that that the downsizing was motivated by this event?

  We won't know. It will just happen.
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  90

  The Org is terrified of apostates

  by SecretSlaveClass in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i knew apostasy was a serious concern for the org, but until i watched this video, i had no idea how afraid they actually were.

  all this guy wants is to do is not turn in his fs hours and immediately they (elders) set about drilling him about who are what influenced his decision, as if he was incapable of making his own (which as the elders confirm, in the org is highly discouraged).

  they are convinced he has been communicating with apostates or visiting apostate web sites.

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  Marvin Shilmer

  Fear of schism is, in my opinion, at the heart of Watchtower disfellowshipping scheme.

  In Rutherford's day he waited for the work of dissenters to go its course with a result that from the Spring of 1927 to the Spring of 1928 the Watchtower organization suffered more than an 80% decline in those associating with it. Then Knorr took over, with Fred Franz at his side just like he had been at the side of Rutherford.

  Knorr and Franz decided it was better to take an initiative by removing dissenters on the front end rather than waiting to see how things settled out. This would mean immediate losses along the way, but hopefully avoid the sort of major schism that occurred in 1927-8. This initiative is what we know today as Watchtower's organized communal shunning program, better known internally as disfellowshipping/disassociation.
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  7

  Ashley Madison Cheat Site Hacked Users Names Published and Searchable

  by ctrwtf in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so i was just wondering how many of our former brothers and sisters are right now in a panic?.

  leave it to christnews.org to do the christian thing and publish a list of names.

  any computer geeks out there willing to search for any bethelites or elders dumb enough to use a real email address?.

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  Marvin Shilmer

  I am virtually certain there are dozens if not hundreds of "prominent" JWs on the list.

  Bethel performs legal background checks on all applicants. If this Ashley Madison data is at all reliable then it will only be a matter of time before we see a little tweaking at Bethel (or is that twerking?) in terms of downsizing.
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  81

  Do you believe Jehovah's Witnesses' Governing Body is the "faithful slave"?

  by Marvin Shilmer in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  this question is known to be posed by jws to other jws as an acid test of loyalty.

  i'm not the first to notice what i'm about to point out and comment accordingly, but today i felt compelled to add a short article on my blog highlighting the new language that governing body member geoffrey jackson supplies as a response.

  a person who honestly hesitates to respond with a robust "yes!

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  Marvin Shilmer

  Fisherman writes:

  Jews believe that Job is allegory. WT teaches that Job was a real person, a contemporary of Moses, from Arabia, a descendant of Abraham--but not of the 12 tribes. ( see Topic "Job" Insight Book and All Scriptures Inspired and Beneficial WTS.) If Job was a fictional character, then God did not actually use him.
  If Job was a real person, then he was an exception of someone that God used who was not a Jew prior to "Pentecost".

  Then, and as you say, if Job was a real person then your assertion is false that "Prior to Pentecost, God used the Jews exclusively."

  The history of Job took place before God appointed Moses as his Messiah and before Israel accepted the Law covenant (according to WTS).

  Another unevidenced assertion. Regardless, your earlier claims is already debunked if, as you say, Job was a real person.

  Interestingly, God used Moses, a Jew, to write the book bearing Job's name, and people benefit because of Moses' work, not Job's.

  Another unevidenced assertion. Regardless, your earlier claims is already debunked if, as you say, Job was a real person.

  And then we have this gem:

  Also, although Job's conduct and integrity must have given God much pleasure, God did not use Job or descendants as his "spokepersons". Prior to "Pentecost," God used the Jews exclusively.

  How on earth you think you can prove the assertion that God did not use Job or descendants as "spokespersons" I have no idea, but I'll ask you to prove it.

  And, finally, and as you say, if Job was a real person then your earlier claims is already debunked that prior to Pentecost God used the Jews exclusively.
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  81

  Do you believe Jehovah's Witnesses' Governing Body is the "faithful slave"?

  by Marvin Shilmer in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  this question is known to be posed by jws to other jws as an acid test of loyalty.

  i'm not the first to notice what i'm about to point out and comment accordingly, but today i felt compelled to add a short article on my blog highlighting the new language that governing body member geoffrey jackson supplies as a response.

  a person who honestly hesitates to respond with a robust "yes!

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  Marvin Shilmer

  That would be the true context of GJ reply in regards this set question.

  johnamos for whatever reason you digress from the point of the OP recommendation, which is a response to an acid test question.

  Response to a litmus test is to serve a particular purpose, and that purpose is achieved at the face value of what is said in direct terms, then leaving it up to recipients to digest as they will.

  I've not recommended a debate. In fact the recommended response is in part designed to avoid debating what amounts to speculative claims.
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  81

  Do you believe Jehovah's Witnesses' Governing Body is the "faithful slave"?

  by Marvin Shilmer in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  this question is known to be posed by jws to other jws as an acid test of loyalty.

  i'm not the first to notice what i'm about to point out and comment accordingly, but today i felt compelled to add a short article on my blog highlighting the new language that governing body member geoffrey jackson supplies as a response.

  a person who honestly hesitates to respond with a robust "yes!

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  Marvin Shilmer

  My commentary is on what is actually written and what was actually said.

  So is my recommended response to the question at issue.

  No more. No less.
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  81

  Do you believe Jehovah's Witnesses' Governing Body is the "faithful slave"?

  by Marvin Shilmer in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  this question is known to be posed by jws to other jws as an acid test of loyalty.

  i'm not the first to notice what i'm about to point out and comment accordingly, but today i felt compelled to add a short article on my blog highlighting the new language that governing body member geoffrey jackson supplies as a response.

  a person who honestly hesitates to respond with a robust "yes!

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  Marvin Shilmer

  Fisherman writes:

  Believe it. Prior to Pentecost, God used the Jews exclusively.

  That's demonstrably false.

  Evidence: Job
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  81

  Do you believe Jehovah's Witnesses' Governing Body is the "faithful slave"?

  by Marvin Shilmer in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  this question is known to be posed by jws to other jws as an acid test of loyalty.

  i'm not the first to notice what i'm about to point out and comment accordingly, but today i felt compelled to add a short article on my blog highlighting the new language that governing body member geoffrey jackson supplies as a response.

  a person who honestly hesitates to respond with a robust "yes!

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  Marvin Shilmer

  The fact that Jackson couldn't/wouldn't/shouldn't answer with a simple "Yes" or "No" proves one thing: He is a coward.

  Boy-oh-boy do I agree with that!!! Responding with a big fat and emphatic "YES!!!" is precisely what every JW has been taught to think, and is why Jackson's response is so useful.

  Jackson has given JWs a way to answer the litmus test question in a way that will leave a typical elder's head spinning in stunned silence. Hey! That sounds like a movie!
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  81

  Do you believe Jehovah's Witnesses' Governing Body is the "faithful slave"?

  by Marvin Shilmer in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  this question is known to be posed by jws to other jws as an acid test of loyalty.

  i'm not the first to notice what i'm about to point out and comment accordingly, but today i felt compelled to add a short article on my blog highlighting the new language that governing body member geoffrey jackson supplies as a response.

  a person who honestly hesitates to respond with a robust "yes!

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  Marvin Shilmer

  The elders will shoot that response down very quickly by saying that Geoffrey Jackson is not the faithful and discreet slave - that the faithful and discreet slave is only operational when the governing body is acting collectively. Thus Geoffrey Jackson's words to the commission does not carry the weight that you think it does. They will say he was only following Jesus' counsel to be cautious as a serpent but innocent as a dove. They will say that Geoffrey Jackson merely said that it would "seem to be presumptuous" not that it actually was presumptuous, and that he went on to mention the faithful slave arrangement in Matthew 24:45.

  That's fine. My response to all that would be:

  I still agree with what Jackson said and I see no reason to speculate further. Do you?
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  81

  Do you believe Jehovah's Witnesses' Governing Body is the "faithful slave"?

  by Marvin Shilmer in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  this question is known to be posed by jws to other jws as an acid test of loyalty.

  i'm not the first to notice what i'm about to point out and comment accordingly, but today i felt compelled to add a short article on my blog highlighting the new language that governing body member geoffrey jackson supplies as a response.

  a person who honestly hesitates to respond with a robust "yes!

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  Marvin Shilmer

  Marvin - this thought just came to me: I wonder how Jackson himself would respond to your reference if he was presiding over your judicial committee?

  I don't see how he could dismiss or disagree with his own words, but of course in a star-chamber session those with the power can do whatever they want, unfortunately with near impunity. Regardless, my point is that with his works Jackson in effect granted a means to say what a lot of us have always said: the Governing Body thinks itself the "faithful slave" and to think this means the Governing Body is the sole spokesperson for God is presumptuous. When confronted with this response, and the fact that a current GB members has publicly endorsed the notion, even a hard-nosed Society Man will have a hard time asking you to speculate further on the matter or, worse, convict you of apostasy for repeating something a GB member already said and said publicly.

  And maybe this is irrelevant to the discussion but it still tends to put things in perspective:
  my dad used to always say "it's not going to make any difference a hundred years from now".
  All things must pass. JWs are like the Millerites... and they will fizzle out too.

  That's all well, good and true. But my recommendation is for those living here and now who want to say what Jackson said to those who ask. Because Jackson said it then it puts legs on the response.